So.... You blew your engine......

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MadFiat
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So.... You blew your engine......

Post by MadFiat » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:19 pm

You blew your engine. WTF where you thinking?

OK... go talk to Fiat's warranty service.... What's that you say? Mods? Not covered? ....

Once you're done crying, come back here and this thread's gonna have some tips for what to do NEXT. Life isn't over. There is life after blown engines.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido
2017 Fiat 124 Spider 6MT - Another one???

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by MadFiat » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:40 pm

50 ways to blow your engine...

First thing to do is figure out WHY your engine is no longer operational - you may actually be able to fix it. Or not!

Engine failures on the 1.4 include:

1. Multiair "failure" due to low oil. If you're lucky, this is what happened. Your engine will crank and crank and sound like there's lost compression. 99% of mechanics who are not familiar with Fiats will tell you that your engine is toast, and claim you need a timing belt. How to fix: Fill your car back up with oil. Crank. Keep cranking. Just when you think it's time to give up, crank some more. Once it pumps oil back into the MA Unit, the engine will fire up and life is hunky dory. Lucky you! Well, you're lucky so long as your multiair unit wasn't damaged, which is a possibility. Cross your fingers and drive away.

2. Multiair actual failure. Caused by low/bad oil, clogged multiair filter, etc. Again, some mechanics will mistake this for a thrown timing belt and predict doom. If you have multiair failure codes, then this is your issue. Replacement multiair units can be found from various online suppliers ranging in price from about $550 to $1000 or more for new ones. Don't cheap out and buy used here. Can be changed in an afternoon, and we'll post up a tech article soon for this.

3. Timing belt failure. Hasn't been all that common, but sure to become more common as these motors age. Most sources say this is an interference motor, which could mean your motor's toast.

4. Broken spark plug / damaged valve. This seems to actually happen pretty frequently. You'll pull a plug and find the tip's broken off! Sometimes you're lucky and it blew through without issue. Other times there's valve damage. Why does this happen? Nobody knows. If replacing the plug allows your car to run, GREAT. If it doesn't, then it's new motor time.

5. Blown piston / Damaged valves. Caused by detonation usually. The ECU is supposed to protect against this, but for some reason this still happens sometimes, especially if you filled up with bad gas and then went full send. In theory, if the pistons are fine and only the valves are damaged, you could rebuild the head. But the Fiat has a complicated 2-piece head and an insane timing procedure which requires expensive tools. New motor time.

6. Ring damage / Blowing oil. Engine's not necessarily toast, but it can get bad enough to warrant replacement. No consensus on cause. Seems to happen to stock cars as often as those with eXtra bOOst.

7. Bottom end failure from boost. Have not seen any public examples of this. The stock rods are tough. North American Abarths have forged rods. Have heard rumors of thrown rods, pistons failed from boost, but have seen no hard evidence. Regardless, if this happens to you.... Time to go engine shopping.

8. Exploded exhaust cam follower. How does it happen? Who the fuck knows? But this happened to my Abarth. Likely cause was either thinned oil, or oil starvation when I was going full send on the dragon for multiple hours. Took a few months to fully manifest the damage and actually blow. Like with valve damage, the topend could be rebuilt in this case. However, the 2-piece head and timing procedure make this difficult and expensive in-car. And if there is debris (as there was in my case) you'd have to be sure the rest of the engine was debris-free. Time to drop a grand or more on an engine.

Did I cover all the common failures? If anyone knows of others, let me know, I'll update the post.

Then we'll address the repairable failures in another article, and the "new engine" tips & tricks right here over the next few weeks.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido
2017 Fiat 124 Spider 6MT - Another one???

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by MadFiat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:49 pm

STEP 1 BUYING THE ENGINE

If you have warranty, and do not have mods, go directly to the dealer, do not pass go.

If you have warranty and mods, be prepared for them not to cover anything. Don't let them rack up a bunch of diagnostic fees before you realize it won't be covered - fight this fight BEFORE they do a diagnostic of any kind.

If your engine is going to be covered under warranty, rejoice and stop reading here. Document everything and enjoy your day.

If, on the other hand, it is not going to be covered under warranty, then you have to decide if you're going to pay someone to do this for you, or to do it yourself. Doing the job yourself isn't actually that hard compared to some vehicles, it's just time consuming - and if you don't have the proper tools be prepared to spend a LOT on tools and equipment. Still cheaper than paying a shop to do it.

So, when buying a "new" motor you have some choices:
1. LKQ Online or LKQ on eBay. Sometimes they have different inventories. Check both. Also other eBay sellers.
2. Local Salvage yard - you're not likely to find one here, but good luck. Most are getting parted out for resale and not let to sit on a junkyard.
3. New engine from Fiat. Here's the catch: A long block from Fiat, as I understand it, comes disassembled(!) and you will have to build your engine ground up or pay a dealer to do it for you.

For most, #1 is the best option. Engines from LKQ range from $750 to $1250 currently, with large mileage range. You can still get low-mile engines with 15,000 or fewer miles - I highly recommend getting the lowest mileage possible. This will help avoid previous owner sins such as not changing the oil, etc.

The engine you need is ENGINE CODE H. Not R.
H = 1.4L 4 CYL Gasoline Turbo (EAF)
R = 1.4L 4 CYL Gasoline Non-Turbo (EAB, EAC, EAE, EAJ, EAK)

A lot of times an eBay seller is pretty clueless about the difference between turbo and non-turbo. It's also no hassle to them to charge you a restocking fee for not checking, and they will quickly blame ebay's software for any listing mistakes and you for not doing due diligence. Short version: DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK which engine code you're ordering. Do not order an engine without pictures - and make sure it visually matches the Turbo model. Water/oil fittings on the front are different, as are the mounting brackets to the intake manifold from the valve cover.

You also have several vehicles you can order from:
Fiat 500 Abarth / 500T - these are obvious.
Dodge Dart 1.4 - Not so Obvious.
Fiat 500L - maybe Jeep renegade? Don't know of anyone who's done it but it SHOULD work.

The best option here is actually the Dart. Why? Availability. There are a butt ton more of them out there than there are Abarths, and many came with 1.4 Turbo. Also, sellers tend to charge less for Dart motors than for Abarth motors for some unknown reason, so you'll usually save some money. It does not matter if it was a manual or automatic as the flywheel and flex plates are different anyway - you'll be using those parts from your original motor.

Also, since you'll be swapping the wiring harness and other bits, don't worry about matching your year. Get the newest one you can - the base engine hasn't changed.

CONDITION
Be sure to inspect photos carefully if they are provided, and inspect the engine when it arrives. Once the engine arrives, they usually include the VIN of the donor vehicle. Search it on Google. Once you see what kind of damage the car had, it can give you a clue what damage to look for on the engine. In my case, it looks like the car hit a pole!.. Indeed I found some damage which I had to address.

Anything that sticks out is prone to damage. In the case of my motor, the oil cooler was dinged up, pieces of the front bumper were embedded in the felt cover from the oil cooler assy, and the thermostat housing was broken off. Also, the bolt bosses on the block where the exhaust bracket mounts are broken off. If this is the case, check that area very carefully for damage. Honestly I would not knowingly order an engine with that damage, but it was too much hassle to send it back over that.

If the vehicle was upside down, you may need to make sure the cylinders and other internal parts are free of any stray fluids that may have "moved around" during its upside down phase. If it was flooded, use your best judgment but I wouldn't want it, as there's some reason they parted out the vehicle instead of just repairing it, which usually means pretty major flood damage.

BUYING
Once you buy the engine it will be delivered to you via freight, if you bought on eBay. Most sellers charge the freight charge up front. For residential delivery, keep in mind some freight companies charge extra for a lift gate, and not all have pallet jacks on board. I was lucky in that respect, my delivery charged no extra for liftgate or pallet jack so the engine was put right in the garage where I wanted it. It arrived very quickly.

Now, you'll notice when the new engine arrives that it PROBABLY was cut out with very few apologies from whatever donor vehicle it came from. The wiring harness and all hoses were likely cut out with a sawzall. Even if the wiring harness is intact, you will need to swap this and some other parts from your old engine. So do not discard ANYTHING from the old engine until this project is finished.

NEXT EPISODE:
Tools You Need and Pulling The Old Motor!!!!

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2018-06-30 12.23.08.jpg
2018-06-30 12.23.08.jpg (83.6 KiB) Viewed 12658 times
What an engine on a pallet looks like. (Rotated for some reason by the software which doesn't like vertical photos)

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2018-07-01 11.04.16.jpg
2018-07-01 11.04.16.jpg (131.03 KiB) Viewed 12658 times
The last time the old engine is fully comfy in my car.

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Someone's bad day means a 10,000 mile engine for my Abarth for $750+$250 Shipping.
donor-dart.jpg
donor-dart.jpg (67.98 KiB) Viewed 12655 times
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido
2017 Fiat 124 Spider 6MT - Another one???

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by texanbrit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:09 pm

Great write up so far, I'm enjoying it very much.
2013 Abarth 500c (NGen Turbo'd) - Isabella
2012 500 Pop (broken, engine rebuild on hold) - Popabella
2014 500L (Daily workhorse) - The Hulk
2013 Abarth 500 (broken engine, current project) - Abby

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by retrophit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:15 pm

Is no one selling built crate motors? They should.
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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by MadFiat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:18 pm

retrophit wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:15 pm Is no one selling built crate motors? They should.
I haven't asked Fiat directly, but anecdotally I'm told that you can't get a fully built motor from them. They really want dealers to only replace the necessary components, and if they approve a whole engine, it has to be assembled on site.... Crazy, I know.

If someone knows otherwise, they may correct me and I'll add the info.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido
2017 Fiat 124 Spider 6MT - Another one???

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by retrophit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:22 pm

No, I mean built as in modified.
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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by MadFiat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:29 pm

retrophit wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:22 pm No, I mean built as in modified.
Ahh I misinterpreted "fully built"... you mean insane like darrell cox racing for the SRT4, etc...

The closest anyone is coming to doing that in the US is Tork Motorsports... I'm not sure if he'll send you a built longblock or just the components. However, if you are willing to pay him enough, he'll do just about anything including swap an entirely inappropriate motor into a 124.

Oh and a number of folks with his tunes have ended up breaking hardware... He really does like to push the limits.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido
2017 Fiat 124 Spider 6MT - Another one???

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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by retrophit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:36 pm

Thanks fir the info! Please feel free to delete my posts to keep your thread clean.
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Re: So.... You blew your engine......

Post by doverosx » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:42 am

MadFiat wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:29 pm
retrophit wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:22 pm No, I mean built as in modified.
Ahh I misinterpreted "fully built"... you mean insane like darrell cox racing for the SRT4, etc...

The closest anyone is coming to doing that in the US is Tork Motorsports... I'm not sure if he'll send you a built longblock or just the components. However, if you are willing to pay him enough, he'll do just about anything including swap an entirely inappropriate motor into a 124.

Oh and a number of folks with his tunes have ended up breaking hardware... He really does like to push the limits.
You mean Eddie?

Great OP and great thread. This is winning.

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