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EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Reviews are MODERATED. Read the Vendor Rules
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jayhoff
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 am
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2014 500C Abarth
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by jayhoff » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:06 am

At the end of the day, that is all I want is 200whp.
I just want a solid power band, and some noise out the back.

So after spending a weekend with this, I am amazed at the power I am getting.
The pops and bangs are too much, and will be toning that down to burbles, otherwise I will have to put a cat back on of some sort.
I wish we had options for a valved set up in the states that didn't cost an arm and leg, because that would make this better.
14' Cabrio

EC V3
KN Drop In
AAD Catch Can
EC Boost Leak
De-Cat
EC E+D
MPX Axle-Back
Eibach Sportline Springs
C4 KYB Shocks
CPR Tunnel Brace
AAD short shifter

doverosx
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:48 am
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth

Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by doverosx » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:19 am

MadFiat wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:10 pm
retrophit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:04 pm
I think we’re all mature and sophisticated enough to hold two thoughts in our heads at once:

First thought: EC’s numbers are BS and not backed up by dyno runs — any dyno.

Second thought: EC is the most prolific and most experienced NA market Fiat tuner and very easy to work with.
True.

I would love for there to be more options, especially for self-tuning or local dyno tuning. Unfortunately there aren't. I'm not even sure if Open Flash Tablet ever was properly updated to support 2014+ PCM's. Even if it was, those who had used OFT on earlier Abarths found that what they thought they could do with end-user tuning wasn't actually doable, and they ended up worse off than if they'd just used a canned tune. A lot of folks announced 2014+ support, only to find out it was more complicated than they thought - which is what bit Speedmotive's butt in the case posted at the beginning of this thread.

Back on topic, I'm sure Lorenzo was assured by his tuner that all was copacetic. Lots of tuners think they've got it figured out, but when the shit hits the fan, it's the vendor that gets the flack. The tuner may have been able to figure it out, but ultimately customers don't like being test subjects. They want to be delivered a tune that works, and is reliable.
Holy crap this is wrong. Lorenzo's tune was FIRST tested on a 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth....ask me how I know? I was there, I did it.

doverosx
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:48 am
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth

Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by doverosx » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:25 am

retrophit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:32 pm
Or EC could just release documentation for their numbers.

Anyway, I think numbers matter because they help you evaluate the cost/benefit of certain mods. Our young friend has been saving up to prepare his car to meet the P2 standard so he can uncork this promised 235WHP and that’s just not going to happen. And that’s shitty IMO.
Agreed. The general rule for turbo power is to look at the flow rate and AR. AR tells you where you will reach peak compressor efficiency/flow and the flow rate say 19lbs/min will net you a multiple of 10; 190whp. That's the "super simplified" version that depends on air density but it mostly works out so far. I don't see anything wrong with what retrophit has actually said and I hope EC can update the site with the new data they have! I'm excited to see what they've been able to crank out of these cars in an official capacity.

I also hope to get to a drag strip before the end of the year with my new Continental Extreme Contact Sports...Phase 2 without spinning in 2nd should help me realize my 14 seconds goal.

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texanbrit
Posts: 501
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Location: Conroe, TX
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2013 500c Abarth
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by texanbrit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:25 am

doverosx wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:19 am
MadFiat wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:10 pm
retrophit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:04 pm
I think we’re all mature and sophisticated enough to hold two thoughts in our heads at once:

First thought: EC’s numbers are BS and not backed up by dyno runs — any dyno.

Second thought: EC is the most prolific and most experienced NA market Fiat tuner and very easy to work with.
True.

I would love for there to be more options, especially for self-tuning or local dyno tuning. Unfortunately there aren't. I'm not even sure if Open Flash Tablet ever was properly updated to support 2014+ PCM's. Even if it was, those who had used OFT on earlier Abarths found that what they thought they could do with end-user tuning wasn't actually doable, and they ended up worse off than if they'd just used a canned tune. A lot of folks announced 2014+ support, only to find out it was more complicated than they thought - which is what bit Speedmotive's butt in the case posted at the beginning of this thread.

Back on topic, I'm sure Lorenzo was assured by his tuner that all was copacetic. Lots of tuners think they've got it figured out, but when the shit hits the fan, it's the vendor that gets the flack. The tuner may have been able to figure it out, but ultimately customers don't like being test subjects. They want to be delivered a tune that works, and is reliable.
Holy crap this is wrong. Lorenzo's tune was FIRST tested on a 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth....ask me how I know? I was there, I did it.
I'm glad to hear that it works on the 15s. This was a 2014, which is was an odd year for the 500 ECU. Transition year and multiple combos of things happening.

Not sure what the issue was, but it wouldn't work and ultimately Jayhoff lost confidence because it didn't work after multiple tries. In desperation Jayhoff reached out to all kinds of people and the feedback wasn't awesome which further dented his confidence. I think we're all so used to flash tuning just working now.

Speedmotive handled it appropriately I think, rather than insisting that the issue was pushed forward they let Jayhoff get a refund and move on.

Did Speedmotive ever figure it out after the tuner reviewed the logs? Is the problem unique to this one car or all 2014s? Hard to imagine it's a problem unique to the car since the EC/Dimsport wrote to ECU without issue.
Abarth 500c (NGen Turbo'd) - Isabella
500 Pop (slightly modified) - Popabella
500L (just starting) - The Hulk

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MadFiat
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by MadFiat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:27 am

doverosx wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:19 am
MadFiat wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:10 pm
retrophit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:04 pm
I think we’re all mature and sophisticated enough to hold two thoughts in our heads at once:

First thought: EC’s numbers are BS and not backed up by dyno runs — any dyno.

Second thought: EC is the most prolific and most experienced NA market Fiat tuner and very easy to work with.
True.

I would love for there to be more options, especially for self-tuning or local dyno tuning. Unfortunately there aren't. I'm not even sure if Open Flash Tablet ever was properly updated to support 2014+ PCM's. Even if it was, those who had used OFT on earlier Abarths found that what they thought they could do with end-user tuning wasn't actually doable, and they ended up worse off than if they'd just used a canned tune. A lot of folks announced 2014+ support, only to find out it was more complicated than they thought - which is what bit Speedmotive's butt in the case posted at the beginning of this thread.

Back on topic, I'm sure Lorenzo was assured by his tuner that all was copacetic. Lots of tuners think they've got it figured out, but when the shit hits the fan, it's the vendor that gets the flack. The tuner may have been able to figure it out, but ultimately customers don't like being test subjects. They want to be delivered a tune that works, and is reliable.
Holy crap this is wrong. Lorenzo's tune was FIRST tested on a 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth....ask me how I know? I was there, I did it.
The problem is that there isn't just one solution that fits all 2014+. It's not a single PCM and not a single encryption scheme. That's why so many thought they had it solved but then had problems on various customer cars. Fiat changed the PCM multiple times after 2014 and all variations have to be accounted for.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2003 PT Cruiser GT 2.4 Turbo - SALVAGE PT - SOLD to Family
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido

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jayhoff
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 am
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2014 500C Abarth
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by jayhoff » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:28 pm

I reached out to the whole community for help, because I wanted it to work. I wanted to write this awesome review, and give others another option for tuning besides E+D, but it didnt work out that way. And I am kind of glad after seeing the way the vendor has acted in the last few days.

Also, he works with a tuner, who works with a group of tuners, and someone in Italy to come up with this tune. Way too many hands in the cookie jar if you as me. I was thinking he had someone locally that tunes, dynos, etc, and that is not the case. I am not doubting his method, I just like the way EC and Tork do it, its all in house, and that seems like the best way.

Every time I asked what was going on, there was little to no answers. I flashed my ECU like 8 times, and I was starting to get worried, as I have a background in IT, and know what car happen, and I didnt want to pay for another ECU because there was a guessing game. I still never got answers on the logs I sent him, I has to reach out and get answers. And if anyone wants to read the logs, I have them, and will send them off.

All of that made me reach out to the community, and is the reason why I chose to send it back.

Competition is a good thing for the community, and who knows, maybe he will figure this out, and make changes to prevent this from happening again.
14' Cabrio

EC V3
KN Drop In
AAD Catch Can
EC Boost Leak
De-Cat
EC E+D
MPX Axle-Back
Eibach Sportline Springs
C4 KYB Shocks
CPR Tunnel Brace
AAD short shifter

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retrophit
Posts: 110
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by retrophit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:38 pm

jayhoff wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:28 pm
And I am kind of glad after seeing the way the vendor has acted in the last few days
What actions? I thought he refunded you?
2013 500C Abarth
  • EC V4.1 Intake, FMIC, Catch Can, P2 Code | Bosh Coilpacks | GFB DV+ | Turbosmart WGA | PTP Blanket | MPX Exhaust
  • Cavallino Splitter, winglets | Sforza 595 Diffuser
  • El Gato Chasis Braces | Maxxim Air 15X6.5 et38
Instagram: retro.phit

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jayhoff
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by jayhoff » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:50 pm

He did, Im just talking about how he has been acting around Facebook.
Then you have this whole FiatTech bullshit, which could of been resolved in other ways.
14' Cabrio

EC V3
KN Drop In
AAD Catch Can
EC Boost Leak
De-Cat
EC E+D
MPX Axle-Back
Eibach Sportline Springs
C4 KYB Shocks
CPR Tunnel Brace
AAD short shifter

Xclusive Tuning
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:25 am
Your Car's Year / Make / Model: 2009 Mercedes AMG C63

Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by Xclusive Tuning » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Thank you Broken FIAT Club for adding us to the community. A quick brief about us at Xclusive Tuning. We belong to a Network of tuners and file experts and code breakers, I refer to them as the "Nerd Network" they wear that title proud as they should as they are some of the finest in the business. Myself I got started tuning 7-8 years ago on Mitsubishi EVO and the elusive 2004-2006 Lancer Ralliart and the 2006+ Eclipse 4G 2.4 and 3.8 MIVEC motors. I branched into euro vehicles a few years back. I did an E-tuning job for a client and one thing led to another and I was put in contact with this group of Euro Tuners that had an Idea for a network of tuners that would contribute their knowledge and expertise to the group, few years later here we are. We have been working with Lorenzo at SpeedMotive for about 2 years now and we did a series of files for him and his specifications. We/I work quietly in the background to help with tech support for the final product. I can be a very emotional person so I apologize for that upfront, I am very passionate and I do not like the wrong or misleading information being presented by mistake, lack of knowledge or on purpose. Especially on purpose. NOW! I am not suggesting the information in this thread was on purpose in fact I believe it is just lack of knowledge. Also, I will NOT get into a non-fractal or opinion-based conversation and we all have opinions and we are all entitled to them. I am only concerned about misinformation and I am here to set the record straight.
Hi Jacob,
Thanks, we took a look at the log file, showing us what was done to try and resolve your issue and unfortunately it was amateur hour.
Im sorry you had to deal with that man!
We use the Alientech Powergate 3 personal programmer. The system works like this. We Xclusive Tuning own the "Master" all units sold are "Slaves” You all should be alarmed that another company wanted to look at our work. If we have a customer that comes to us from another company (for whatever reason) we start fresh and clean, too many things can go wrong. Look we have been around a long time and we know things go wrong from time to time, no one has a perfect record. Looking at the log files does not tell you what was told to the OP. All the log file tell you is what the programmer is doing. Basically, it is a chain of events that are time stamped (see example link). You CAN NOT see the tuned file only that the tuned file is being written at XX:XX time.

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Essentially what was happening was that they were trying to copy a file that was not compatible with your specific car. The files need to be created on an individual basis. For them not to know that about these ECMs would imply they do not regularly calibrate these cars via this method or at all. Those are the facts with what we can see from the log files available.
Well we do not copy files as this suggests. The MM8GMK ECU is clone-able, anyone who works with this ECU would know this. To say this “The files need to be created on an individual basis” is totally false. You can take a CALID matching file and use it in another ECU. We take the file that comes out of the ECU and we work that file we DO NOT try to copy files as suggested. Here is where we call BS! this is not possible “they were trying to copy a file” “Those are the facts with what we can see from the log files available.” No other way to say this but BS! There is no way they can get that information from the log files, again they are nothing more than a time stamp. See example, the USR file (stock factory file) calid matches the file about to be written, if we were copying a file those would not match. The only way the calid would match is if we used the same factory calibration from another ecu but since they are calid matching there would no issues.
Jacoub log files-usr file.png
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tuned file write.png
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Now since we were able to see the log files, everything looked normal. In other words, the programmer worked as designed. We double checked the tuned file and all looks good. So, either the wrong protocol was used or there is another unknown error that we are yet to find. It could be something as simple as a voltage drop or spike for something? Honest answer we do not know, I sent the log file to a few in my network and to Alientech for analysis. We have done a few Abarth 500 and 124 Spiders and this is the first issue we have encountered. The OP got nervous and sent the programmer back and I fully understand. Sorry the information posted by the OP is factually incorrect. I am not blaming the OP I do believe he is innocent and just relaying information that he received.

Thank you to all that got through this novel, I just wanted the facts out there.

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MadFiat
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Re: EC Euro+Drive Phase 0 / Phase 1 PB

Post by MadFiat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:01 pm

After speaking with Lorenzo, I made the decision to allow his tuning partner to post their position on this thread. Per our vendor rules, the vendor has now had a chance to respond to claims made about them.

The thread has been locked and there will be no further public discussion of the issues involving the tuning of the car in question by Speedmotive or about their competitor's actions in this case. However, since this involves the actions of a second vendor, that vendor as well will be allowed, if they so desire, to post a response or rebuttal. If they choose to do so I will add it to this thread.

Thread closed.
2015 Rosso Abarth 5MT - MAD FIAT - EC Phase 2 + Supporting Mods
2003 PT Cruiser GT 2.4 Turbo - SALVAGE PT - SOLD to Family
2015 Granito Lucente 500T 6AT - Projecto Estupido

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